Folder SPINNER RACKS AND LONGBOXES: Essay on Comic Shops and Discussions About Comic Shops



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 From:  Tom Spurgeon (TOMSPURGEON)
 To:  ALL
237.1 

It's sort of long:

http://www.comicsreporter.com/index.php/cr_editorial_why_comic_shops_still_matter/

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 From:  B. Clay Moore (BCLAYMOORE)
 To:  Tom Spurgeon (TOMSPURGEON)   11 Sep 2007
237.2 In reply to 237.1 

My very simple, non-confrontational question would be this:

There appears to be a move toward distributing comics online and in bookstores. This makes perfect sense.

In my old hometown, were I still living in my parents' house, my options would be this: drive across town and request that the one half-decent shop in the city order a book I was interested in; drive five minutes to Borders to see if they had it, then cut across the street to Barnes & Noble to see if they had it; or stay at home and order it online, probably at a disciunt.

Is it easier to embrace these methods of distribution, or to try to address concerns and fix the old method?

And might the move to new methods force the old method to improve or die?

-BCM

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 From:  Justin Jordan (JUSTINJORDAN)
 To:  B. Clay Moore (BCLAYMOORE)   11 Sep 2007
237.3 In reply to 237.2 
I love my comic shop.

So much so that I drive 140 miles round trip to hit the place once a month. But if I didn't enjoy my shop so much, my ass would be doing my shopping online.

I like comics shops, but I think having comics only available in comics shops is bad mojo. I probably wouldn't be reading comics now if they hadn't been in the conveniences stores and supermarkets when I was wee un.

And this is becoming kind of a dilemma. I have a book (The Ghost Collector) coming out in 2008. It's a horror book, and there are quite a lot of people out there who I suspect would enjoy who are likely not going to be able to get copies.

If I pound the internet pavement and sell them, will I piss off the comic book people?

(I'm probably too insignificant to be noticied, but it's a question.)

I like comic shops.

I just wish there were of them.

Okay, I'm on MySpace. I also have a blog type thingamabob and Flickr! You can see some of my work by going to myComicSpace It's all very exciting.
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 From:  Tom Spurgeon (TOMSPURGEON)
 To:  B. Clay Moore (BCLAYMOORE)   11 Sep 2007
237.4 In reply to 237.2 

My answer would be that you should do whatever you want. You don't owe anyone your business, and making a value out of artificially working against one's interests can almost never be sustained. Me, I'd be on Amazon in second.

What would be nice is that if the comic shop were a serious option. Let's be frank that in a lot of cases, and in a lot of place, it isn't. I think trying to instill a value system within the industry where the comic shop becomes a more serious option in more cases is worth fighting for.

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 From:  Tom Spurgeon (TOMSPURGEON)
 To:  Justin Jordan (JUSTINJORDAN)   11 Sep 2007
237.5 In reply to 237.3 
The short answer is that you probably won't sell enough to make any stores mad, such is the nature of comics. But the philosophical answer is that anyone who complains about your honestly pursuing other markets is a dickweed and should be ignored. The only thing you owe accounts in an ethical sense on that general issue is to be honest with them. I mean, if you got your local store to order copies promising him that all your relatives and friends are looking forward to the book's release and will be in to buy it but the whole time you plan on selling your relatives and friends the book via an e-mail, then you're the dickweed. But you're not a dickweed for doing some selling, you're a dickweed for misrepresenting yourself.
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 From:  Justin Jordan (JUSTINJORDAN)
 To:  Tom Spurgeon (TOMSPURGEON)   11 Sep 2007
237.6 In reply to 237.5 
Yeah, in practical terms, I don't think anyone will care.

I'm going to make an effort to keep things copacetic - I think so long as I don't make the available through the net stuff cheaper, I won't ruffle any feathers.

I liked the essay by the way, and I think I'm largely in agreement with your feeling on comic shops.

I do miss comics at the supermarket, though. Kids are missing out.

Okay, I'm on MySpace. I also have a blog type thingamabob and Flickr! You can see some of my work by going to myComicSpace It's all very exciting.
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 From:  Tom Spurgeon (TOMSPURGEON)
 To:  Justin Jordan (JUSTINJORDAN)   11 Sep 2007
237.7 In reply to 237.6 
There's an interview that I think Gerry Conway did around 1984 or 1985 where at one point he talks about what he thought was the big companies unnecessarily hastening their move out of the newsstands to pursue the bigger and more efficient DM, and he wondered with all that was wrong with that market and all that it was collapsing around their ears if there weren't elements of that market that comics companies wouldn't eventually miss.
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 From:  B. Clay Moore (BCLAYMOORE)
 To:  Tom Spurgeon (TOMSPURGEON)   11 Sep 2007
237.8 In reply to 237.4 
Perhaps, but it's such an uphill fight in so many cases.

And, of course, most areas of the country do not have the option of walking into a decent comic shop and browsing good books, or of placing orders for books not on the shelves. The more outlets for comics, the better it is for everyone. -BCM

EDITED: 11 Sep 2007 by BCLAYMOORE

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 From:  Great Scott! (SCOTTBIESER)
 To:  Tom Spurgeon (TOMSPURGEON)   11 Sep 2007
237.9 In reply to 237.1 
Long yes but thoughtful and well worth the read.

This will take a bit of time to digest but I do have one bone to pick about your parenthetical remarks here:

quote:
(Conventional wisdom can flip around the other way, too. The effective piece of late '90s rhetoric that independent comics represented the true mainstream while superhero comics represented little more than a fetish parade and emotional comfort food favored by 30-something, loveless mega-fatties is a lot harder to argue after a few billion dollars in superhero movies and a 2007 Fall Network TV schedule that looks like it was slapped together by my local university's gaming club hopped up on Mountain Dew.)


I think this "late '90s rhetoric" still has quite a bit of validity. The overwhelming majority of superhero comics published today really are inaccessible to people outside a limited group of "afficianados," let's call them. The phenomenon Dirk Deppey has labeled "superhero decadence" does exist and arguably does pose a barrier to broader acceptance of the general form.

The recent box-office successes of super-hero films does not disprove this notion: after all, the ones that have had the most success have been those based on iconic characters which have been around since at least the early 1960s, when superhero comics were still widely available and accessible to children, who are now the adults writing the reviews and taking their children to see these things.

And the recent eruption of power-fantasy shows on television is notable for its lack that most standard of super-hero tropes: the colorful skin-tight costume. What we're seeing on television, for the most part, is a form of "super-hero" story so far mutated from the form portrayed in the Big Two's spandex books that it's almost (though not quite) a new genre.

I also predict that much of the present interest in power-fantasy among television producers is a fad which is going to pass within two years, as the majority of these shows fail and the sharks swim on to find the next fad.

But all this is secondary to some of the very good points you've made about the need for more intelligent business behavior on the part of publishers, The Distributor, and retailers. I tend to think that some of the changes you ask of publishers, especially independents, is going to require changes in creator habits as well -- I know of one very famous and respected creator who has gone into self-publishing, and may be shooting himself in the foot by taking a cavalier attitude towards scheduling for his purportedly bi-monthly series. And of course, late-performing artists and writers have been a standard horror story told among editors when they get together for so long, it's become a cliche along the lines of the evil in-law or the arrogant civil servant.

I'm not certain whether this behavior can be changed -- it is all too easy for a writer or artist to over-estimate his or her productivity, especially when under pressure to sell a pitch. And, as the saying goes, sometimes shit happens.

This problem is also pervasive in the prose fiction industry. LIterary and genre fiction pubilshers have dealt with this by not (with a few exceptions) scheduling a book for publication until after the manuscript is completed -- but doing this for comics, particularly with regard to art page production, requires a level of capitalization beyond the means of most indie comics publishers, and could also strain the cash-flow of the Big Two, if one considers the number of titles they have in production at any given time.

Scott Bieser
Annoying my betters since 1957..
gallery: http://www.scottbieser.com
My Online Graphic Novel: Roswell, Texas
publisher: http://www.bigheadpress.com
blog: Living On Mars
Engine.ning
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 From:  Tom Spurgeon (TOMSPURGEON)
 To:  Great Scott! (SCOTTBIESER)   11 Sep 2007
237.10 In reply to 237.9 

Scott, I'm not saying it's impossible to argue, just more difficult. I'm sure we could find someone who could argue with equal passion on the other side, using phrases like "Spider-Man is more mainstream than Marjane Satrapi." Ten years ago, that was harder to argue. (Well, using an equivalent for Satrapi.)

Besides, it quickly becomes different orientations butting heads, not a straight-up argument with an agreed-upon set of values.

Personally, I don't care. I think how mainstream something is is kind of a canard in an art form where reaching 400K is an industry-shaking success. Those arguments basically become who has greater appeal to a phantom readership.

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 From:  Rocketship (ALEXCOX)
 To:  Tom Spurgeon (TOMSPURGEON)   11 Sep 2007
237.11 In reply to 237.1 

Thank you Tom!

That was a nice start to morning, and a very thoughtful piece.

It certainly counterbalances the constant barrage of "LOOK AT HOW HORRIBLE COMIC SHOPS ARE" articles and link-blogging that goes on at other sites.

I certainly appreciate your even-keeled observations, and agree wholeheartedly!

www.rocketshipstore.com
www.lukewarmtales.blogspot.com

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 From:  Rocketship (ALEXCOX)
 To:  B. Clay Moore (BCLAYMOORE)   11 Sep 2007
237.12 In reply to 237.8 

"And, of course, most areas of the country do not have the option of walking into a decent comic shop and browsing good books, or of placing orders for books not on the shelves. "

"Most areas" of the country?

Really?

www.rocketshipstore.com
www.lukewarmtales.blogspot.com

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 From:  Great Scott! (SCOTTBIESER)
 To:  Rocketship (ALEXCOX)   11 Sep 2007
237.13 In reply to 237.12 
quote:
"Most areas" of the country?

Really?


This claim is difficult to quantify but I think it does have some validity. Look in the back of most recent issues of Love & Rockets, or look at the "Indie-Friendly Stores Page" and you will see a clustering of stores in about a dozen or so large urban areas.

Depending on what you would define as "decent", it seems that you need to be within a city or urban cluster of at least 500,000 persons to find a shop that will stock books from outside of the Premier Four, and at least 2 million that will stock "art comics" such as are sold by Fantagraphics. The really large urban centers such as New York, Chicago, and Los Angeles enjoy comics riches, while here in Wyoming there is only one comics shop at all (I haven't seen it but someone I know swears it's there), and that's way up in Jackson Hole, a community of mostly rich Californian expatriates.

Scott Bieser
Annoying my betters since 1957..
gallery: http://www.scottbieser.com
My Online Graphic Novel: Roswell, Texas
publisher: http://www.bigheadpress.com
blog: Living On Mars
Engine.ning
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 From:  Rocketship (ALEXCOX)
 To:  Great Scott! (SCOTTBIESER)   11 Sep 2007
237.14 In reply to 237.13 

That list looks pretty expansive to me.

I'm not sure what L&R back page you speak of... if it's the COMICS COUNTRY ad, that's just a collaborative ad by stores that know each other... it's not a representative map of indy-friendly comic shops nationwide.

As for "urban areas" offering more comic shop variety... well, urban areas offer more, period. There's more people and more demand- this is pretty simple realities of the marketplace.

The town I grew up in couldn't support a general bookstore, much less a comics-specific one. But there was a great shop just a short drive away, and another one in downtown Nashville. I have never been at a loss for good shops.

www.rocketshipstore.com
www.lukewarmtales.blogspot.com

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 From:  Tom Spurgeon (TOMSPURGEON)
 To:  Rocketship (ALEXCOX)   11 Sep 2007
237.15 In reply to 237.14 

I've lived or worked in small towns in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and now New Mexico, and I think Scott's more right than you are.

I'm two and a half hours from a comic shop right now, and that's a combination comics/paintball supplies shop. The nearest one where I could reasonably expect to see a hit alt-comic on the shelves? Five hours. The nearest one where I would bet more than $50 on it? Six and a half.

There used to be greater coverage for shops in general, but the 1990s shenanigans, including I believe Marvel outright raising their minimums for a period -- I was undercover at a distributor meeting where Marvel told a small-town Idaho retailer to her face she'd no longer be able to carry their comics -- blasted a lot of those stores from existence.

For instance, in 1994 or so there was a store here in town. And a store 45 minutes away and another store 80 minutes away. Now the only new comic for 200 miles in any direction is Shonen Jump.

There's also the very important issue of a general culture shift for comic shops away from carrying everything that came out to being more specialized that I would trace to the black and white bust. I've seen a half dozen shops in small towns carry Love and Rockets, because they're old stores and it's something they've always carried.

While I think it's a pipe dream to think there would be kick ass stores all over the country, I don't think it's a pipe dream to suggest there might be the possibility for better coverage, and that overall the industry might have as a value helping people get comics, even if it's not the ones they carry.

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 From:  Great Scott! (SCOTTBIESER)
 To:  Tom Spurgeon (TOMSPURGEON)   11 Sep 2007
237.16 In reply to 237.15 

Wow, Tom, you're worse off than I am.

Nearest comics store of any type: 50 miles away in Fort Collins, Colorado. This is a college town which has two comics shops. One of them is also a gamer's den. The other looks like something out of the 1980s, and is full of cats. Both of them do carry a tiny smattering of indie comics.

Nearest comics store that carries a significant number of alt-comics: 110 miles away in Boulder, Colorado. (Time Warp, which is really a neat place -- I could spend hours in that store if I had the hours to spare.) Boulder is on the outskirts of Denver and home to the biggest state university in the Rocky Mountain region.

Clearly, what we need are more college towns.

Since moving to Cheyenne, I've noticed a tendency of those who live in large urban areas to think that NO ONE lives anywhere but in large urban areas. Or at least, no one who matters. It gets annoying.


Scott Bieser
Annoying my betters since 1957..
gallery: http://www.scottbieser.com
My Online Graphic Novel: Roswell, Texas
publisher: http://www.bigheadpress.com
blog: Living On Mars
Engine.ning
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 From:  B. Clay Moore (BCLAYMOORE)
 To:  Rocketship (ALEXCOX)   11 Sep 2007
237.17 In reply to 237.12 

Yes, really.

This is a point I think guys who run shops in major cities have trouble connecting with when publishers are dying to get books into people's hands.

And the "hometown" I spoke before of has a population of 300,000 people. You'd have to travel roughly 200 miles to find what I'd (subjectively) refer to as a "good" comic shop.

EDITED: 11 Sep 2007 by BCLAYMOORE

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 From:  Steven Huls (LOKIZERO)
 To:  Great Scott! (SCOTTBIESER)   11 Sep 2007
237.18 In reply to 237.16 

"Nearest comics store that carries a significant number of alt-comics: 110 miles away in Boulder, Colorado. (Time Warp, which is really a neat place -- I could spend hours in that store if I had the hours to spare.) Boulder is on the outskirts of Denver and home to the biggest state university in the Rocky Mountain region."

Hooray for future me!

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 From:  Rory Root (RORYROOT)
 To:  Tom Spurgeon (TOMSPURGEON)   11 Sep 2007
237.19 In reply to 237.1 

Lovely article Tom, with plenty of food for thought.

A regularized shipping schedule would be a godsend. Though how to achieve it escapes me.

There is little doubt that we need more stores; and that there is room for improvement in even the best shops.

T'was ever thus.

Rory D. Root
COMIC RELIEF: THE Comic Bookstore
2026 Shattuck Ave.
Berkeley, Ca. 94704-1117
V 510/843-5002
F 510/540-1730
info@comicrelief.net
rory@comicrelief.net
www.comicrelief.net

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 From:  Tom Spurgeon (TOMSPURGEON)
 To:  Great Scott! (SCOTTBIESER)   11 Sep 2007
237.20 In reply to 237.16 
The sad thing is that I'm in a college town. With two bookstores, three video stores, 25 art galleries and an animation school.
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