Folder PROJECT WORKLOGS: KLOG! - Jordan's Workblog



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 From:  Justin Jordan (JUSTINJORDAN)
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1236.1 

A project so new that I'm not 100% sure what the title is going to be!

I've got five projects that have artists attached and actually working on them. Problem with doing workblogs on them is that the updating would so sporadic as to make blogging about them individually pretty pointless.

But I've got a new thing that's pushed itself to the front of the writing line, so I thought maybe I'd take a stab at working at something on the public stage.

I was working on something else, and the term Blackheart Valentine popped into my head. It's jotted down in my notes for another prohect, and a character to go with the name almost immediately popped into my head.

A mad frentic harlequinn, somebody ludicrous enough to actually call themselves Blackheart Valentine.

Unfortunately, Marvel already has a character named Blackheart, and a quick google shows me there's at least one song with the phrase in the lyrics.

So I may not end up with the name that inspired the character. Ah well.

The idea that came with it was, more or less, what if the Joker was a hero?

What if a city desperately needed a Batman, and what they got was a man who had made chaos his religion. Yeah, I could do something with that.

The basic plot came up pretty easy - Lunatic versus horribly corrupt city. It got me to thinking, though, that crazy is maybe just a point of view. Maybe if the sane is so terrible, that being nuts becomes something very much like sanity.

I wondered what kind of effect he could have dropped into the right environment. And then I wondered....

What if he didn't actually exist?


Okay, I'm on MySpace. I also have a blog type thingamabob and Flickr! You can see some of my work by going to myComicSpace It's all very exciting.

EDITED: 12 Aug 2008 by JUSTINJORDAN

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 From:  Jimmie Robinson (JIMME_ROBINSON)
 To:  Justin Jordan (JUSTINJORDAN)   28 Apr 2008
1236.2 In reply to 1236.1 
quote: Justin
What if he didn't actually exist?


My first thought with this centered on Rashomon. The truth from various views. Thus the book is really about society and the effects that a greater personality has on them. There is no "hero", but the citizens believe in him, like faith. And even the most ludicrous ideas are given weight from mass hysteria.

"Blackheart Valentine came down like a lightning bolt and fried those robbers on the spot."

Though the truth is the car hit a pole dropping the electrical lines and a transformer. Then you can also have copycats, groupies, people who worship and cement the idea of the ever elusive "hero". The batman type who works in the shadows, but is rarely, if ever, seen.

** Perhaps an Astro City spin / POV from the "every man" and how they "believe".
Or focus on that one kid who doesn't believe the hype and how he collects data to prove Blackheart Valentine does not exist.

** The best ending would be the citizens get together and kill the kid.
The mob all carry weapons and chase him into a dead end alley, a shot rings out, but nobody is sure who fired it - thus, they believe Blackheart was there. And it continues on.

** Perhaps from the person who fired the shot? By killing the person who didn't believe he realizes Blackheart wasn't there... and the seeds of doubt grow.

Then you get a sequel.


Jimmie "Kitty" Robinson
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 From:  Justin Jordan (JUSTINJORDAN)
 To:  Jimmie Robinson (JIMME_ROBINSON)   28 Apr 2008
1236.3 In reply to 1236.2 

That's....scarily similar to what I'm doing.

"Then you can also have copycats, groupies, people who worship and cement the idea of the ever elusive "hero". The batman type who works in the shadows, but is rarely, if ever, seen."

Yes! There will be a Blackheart Valentine seen, but the overall question is whether any of these people are the real thing or are they just copycats, or whether people have even seen him at all.

"Or focus on that one kid who doesn't believe the hype and how he collects data to prove Blackheart Valentine does not exist."

What I'm thinking, and I'll expand on this in the next post, is that the POV character is someone who knows, absolutely, that BV doesn't really exist.

Because she created him.

The question I'm working at the edges of is what does it mean to exist? Even though BV began as a hoax, if there's someone out there doing what he does, and every one believes in him, is he real?

Not surprisingly, there's stuff in there about religion and cults that I want to touch on. And figures like Paul Bunyan and such.


Okay, I'm on MySpace. I also have a blog type thingamabob and Flickr! You can see some of my work by going to myComicSpace It's all very exciting.
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 From:  Jimmie Robinson (JIMME_ROBINSON)
 To:  Justin Jordan (JUSTINJORDAN)   28 Apr 2008
1236.4 In reply to 1236.3 
quote: Justin
Because she created him.


That's even better.
And I can fuckin' relate. In fact, all us creators can relate to making one thing, sending it out to the masses, then having a return response that rattles your bones. Is that what I created? Is that what they really think? Do I dispel this notion or go with it? If the people like it does that make my creation, as I intended, wrong? And is it better to live with the lie than tell the truth?

Again, this really carves down to how a society thinks and how the infrastructure supports even lies if all the players believe. You could say this a superhero meets The Wire. The ripples of effects could go on forever. How the press / media blow it up, how cults keep it on the streets, how the police react, how the politicians use it for their gain.

That elusive audacity of hope, Mr. Obama?

The only concern I have is how long will the reader hang in?
Especially if they're clued in. This could be written behind the curtain on both sides. Reader and characters are unsure if this is real, or not. Or, as you say... the woman who created it knows - but perhaps she might start believing her own hype?

EDIT:
No matter how you slice you've got a nice concept going on here.


Jimmie "Kitty" Robinson
ComicSpace
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EDITED: 28 Apr 2008 by JIMME_ROBINSON

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 From:  Justin Jordan (JUSTINJORDAN)
 To:  Jimmie Robinson (JIMME_ROBINSON)   28 Apr 2008
1236.5 In reply to 1236.4 

"but perhaps she might start believing her own hype?"

That's what I'm thinking - the throughline of the story being her coming to believe something she knows is false. Or rather, she begins to doubt what she knows to be true.

"The only concern I have is how long will the reader hang in?"

Me too. I've got a basic idea of how the story should go, and I know what I want to do, but jamming it all into a comic that's actual readable and interesting - well, that's going to be tricky.

I've been infatuated lately with Jonathan Hickman's comics and the kind of 'wall of sound' incredibly dense information thing they've got going on, and I want to do something like that with this.

"You could say this a superhero meets The Wire."

Oh, I like that. I was planning on the three points of view of the the story being the press (in the form of the BV creator), and the police and the criminals.

But The Wire...

Ohhhhhhhh.....


Okay, I'm on MySpace. I also have a blog type thingamabob and Flickr! You can see some of my work by going to myComicSpace It's all very exciting.
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 From:  Jimmie Robinson (JIMME_ROBINSON)
 To:  Justin Jordan (JUSTINJORDAN)   28 Apr 2008
1236.6 In reply to 1236.5 
I imagine it would be *very* interesting when a super villain comes to town.
Crestfallen city? Where's our hero?
Or perhaps the copycat gets a serious dose of reality. Hahah!


Jimmie "Kitty" Robinson
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 From:  RAZORBLADES & HURRICANES (RANTZ HOSELEY)
 To:  ALL
1236.7 
you know, I'm kinda glad I put this section up...


Rantz Hoseley
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 From:  Max Vaehling (DREADFULGATE)
 To:  Justin Jordan (JUSTINJORDAN)   28 Apr 2008
1236.8 In reply to 1236.1 
I like it. At first, it sounded a bit like V FORVENDETTA (the movie, I'm afraid) or Tangent's JOKER, and I already liked that. Then you turn it around with:

quote:
What if he didn't actually exist?


You seem to have a good sense of plot twists. (There's one later on, with BV's creator.) IF you treat them as actual plot twists (rather than just, dunno, exposition), you shouldn't have any trouble keeping your readers hanging on.

The copycat angle is pretty close to something I've been toying with, but you seem to have a different enough take on it, so I don't have to hate BV. That's good, I wouldn't want to.
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 From:  Justin Jordan (JUSTINJORDAN)
 To:  Max Vaehling (DREADFULGATE)   28 Apr 2008
1236.9 In reply to 1236.8 

"V FORVENDETTA (the movie, I'm afraid)"

This is actually a concern; I'm hoping where I end up somewhere different, but I had the thought that I was veering into that territory. I'll just have to see what shakes out.

"ou seem to have a good sense of plot twists."

Thanks. Yeah, I need to pace it out. There are elements that, while cool, I don't know are going to make it in. There's a whole bit I was considering with what amount to a supervillain coming to town to see about BV, and what I'm thinking of I like, but I'm not sure it'll fit.

The villain in question being a small humble well dressed man called The Librarian who happens to be a near superhuman killing machine. I was thinking of an angle where BV is likened to someone like The Shadow, a rogue member of a murder cult who was cultivated bizarre abilkties, and the Librarian is par tof that, but as I think about it, I don't know that I'm going to use it.


Okay, I'm on MySpace. I also have a blog type thingamabob and Flickr! You can see some of my work by going to myComicSpace It's all very exciting.
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 From:  Max Vaehling (DREADFULGATE)
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1236.10 
Don't worry, I didn't mean it in a bad way. It's just that there doesn't seem to be that anarchism vs. fascim angle, or I'd have likened it to that. Anyway, from what I've read since, you're taking off into an entirely different direction.
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 From:  Jimmie Robinson (JIMME_ROBINSON)
 To:  RAZORBLADES & HURRICANES (RANTZ HOSELEY)   28 Apr 2008
1236.11 In reply to 1236.7 
quote: Crazy Rantz
you know, I'm kinda glad I put this section up...


Damn skippy!
It's my new fav island on Pan & Pix.


Jimmie "Kitty" Robinson
ComicSpace
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 From:  Greg Carter (GREGCARTER)
 To:  Justin Jordan (JUSTINJORDAN)   29 Apr 2008
1236.12 In reply to 1236.5 
quote:
the throughline of the story being her coming to believe something she knows is false. Or rather, she begins to doubt what she knows to be true.


I absolutely LOVE this part especially. What happens when truth hits the event horizon of doubt...

I'm spending a lot of time reading the worklog section. The ideas bouncing around in here are amazing. I'll join in the cheers to Rantz.



Greg Carter
Abandon - Life, love, family, evil.
Tombstone Swordslinger - The Old West. Without the gunpowder. (coming soon)
UpDown Studio - online artist collective.
ComicSpace - MySpace - LiveJournal - Twitter
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 From:  Justin Jordan (JUSTINJORDAN)
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1236.13 In reply to 1236.1 

The Greek Chorus

"The Greek chorus (choros) is believed to have grown out of the Greek dithyrambs and tragikon drama in tragic plays of the ancient Greek theatre. The chorus offers a variety of background and summary information to help the audience follow the performance. It comments on main themes, and shows how an ideal audience might react to the drama. It also represents the general populace in any particular story. In many ancient Greek plays, the chorus"

From Wikipedia.

I like the idea of a chorus commenting and illuminating the main themes. One of the things that the arrival of Web 2.0 has given is, for good or ill, is society where our actions are recorded and commented on. Pick a subject, any subject, and you can google and get the world's largest chorus chiming back at you.

The Dark Knight Returns, in my estimation, used this quite a bit. I'm not sure if Miller was intentionally aping the old greek chorus on simply commenting on the nature of the media, but the talking head interjection served the same purpose, to add dimensions and comment on the meat of the story.

And just to through in another of comic's greatest works to make me seem like even more of a pompous ass, Watchmen used the epistolary sections and some of the minor secondary characters for much the same purpose.

Since one of the main themes of BV is perception and what is real, I'm thinking I'm going to take a stab at using the chorus idea. I'm not going to use blogs or that kind of thing, that sort of zeitgeist mugging never seems to turn out well. It's like putting Rob Schneider in as comic relief.

The chorus will show different interpretations, different theories, different angles on the reality of what is going on. Some of them will be pieces of information that may or may not explain things.

(For example, BV has apparently supernatural powers. What I might include is a pared down primer on how stage magicians could achieve what he does.)

But I think that having pieces of the story told from various points of view, sometimes conflicting, with bits of commentary from the people that are around, to straight up chorus following Blackheart around and talking about what he does.


That last one is risky, but given the nature of the character, I think I can swing it. Along with the song and dance theme.

You maybe wondering why I'm talking about all this crap as opposed to things like plot and character. Well, it's because I'm trying to do something from a different angle. All of this kind of stuff will affect how the plot will unfold. I do have a basic idea of how the plot will go.

Speaking of which, I'm thinking of six issues for this, because it gives me a nice big swath of space to stretch. And it's a length I'm comfortable with.

The whole story can best be summed up with one phrase:

"Who is Blackheart Valentine?"

Each issue will explore an aspect of that, and a different section of the protagonist's relationship with her 'creation'. Basically, every issue will posit (yeesh, did I justsay posit) an answer to the question of "Who is Blackheart Valentine?"

Something like:

1. Urban Legend

2. Lie

3. Madman

4. Collective Unconscious

5. Hero

6. Myth

(Not final, just the idea.)

As far as the plot goes, the basic bit is this: Blackheart Valentine, whatever he is, has the goal of bringing down the entire criminal and corrupt enterprise that keeps the city running. The protagonist, and for fuck's sake, let's give her a name - Chandra, becomes entangled in the conflict when people who care, both good and bad, track the BV effect back to her.

Hrrm. Rambly. Sorry, just getting my thoughts down and organised.


Okay, I'm on MySpace. I also have a blog type thingamabob and Flickr! You can see some of my work by going to myComicSpace It's all very exciting.
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 From:  Greg Carter (GREGCARTER)
 To:  Justin Jordan (JUSTINJORDAN)   29 Apr 2008
1236.14 In reply to 1236.13 
Lots of cool stuff to work with there! I see why you want to go info-rich with it. B-)



Greg Carter
Abandon - Life, love, family, evil.
Tombstone Swordslinger - The Old West. Without the gunpowder. (coming soon)
UpDown Studio - online artist collective.
ComicSpace - MySpace - LiveJournal - Twitter
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 From:  Justin Jordan (JUSTINJORDAN)
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1236.15 In reply to 1236.1 
Actual update later, but two words I want to remember: Aporia and egregore.

Okay, I'm on MySpace. I also have a blog type thingamabob and Flickr! You can see some of my work by going to myComicSpace It's all very exciting.
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 From:  Justin Jordan (JUSTINJORDAN)
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1236.16 In reply to 1236.1 

Disumbrationism.

* For those who don't feel like reading an external link: after getting mad about his wife's realistic still lifes meeting a cold reception from an art exhibition jury, Paul Jordan Smith felt like spoofing modern art, so he gave himself a faux-Slavic name, dressed his hair to look like a brooding Emo artist, painted a sloppy, nonsensical picture of a woman holding a banana over her head, made up some pretentious crap about "the shattering of the bonds of womanhood", and claimed he was the founder of the Disumbrationist school of art. But much to his surprise, instead of being mocked and laughed at (which was his actual intention), he was actually praised as an innovative artistic genius! Some time later, after his Kayfabe actually started gaining real followers, he eventually revealed his ruse and lectured everyone about the declining tastes of the artistic community.


Okay, I'm on MySpace. I also have a blog type thingamabob and Flickr! You can see some of my work by going to myComicSpace It's all very exciting.
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 From:  DivaLea (LEAHERNANDEZ)
 To:  Justin Jordan (JUSTINJORDAN)   24 Jun 2008
1236.17 In reply to 1236.1 

It's a great name. So: Valentine Blackheart. OR Valentine Blackhart(e). OR civilian name: Valentin Blackhart(e).

C'mawwwn. Keep it.

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 From:  Justin Jordan (JUSTINJORDAN)
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1236.18 In reply to 1236.17 

Believe it or not, I haven't forgotten this. I've just been waaaaay too busy to give it the thought and work it needs.

On the bummer side, two of my long gestating pet projects have been beaten to the punch by Hollywood.

On one hand, it irritates me that stuff I've been working on for the last two years will now, if I go on with them, be viewed as ripping off movies and television shows.

On the other hand, it does look like my instincts and sensibilities are commercial enough. So there's that.


Okay, I'm on MySpace. I also have a blog type thingamabob and Flickr! You can see some of my work by going to myComicSpace It's all very exciting.
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 From:  Justin Jordan (JUSTINJORDAN)
 To:  Justin Jordan (JUSTINJORDAN)   27 Jul 2008
1236.19 In reply to 1236.18 
Thread Necromancy!

This was the Blackheart Valentine thread, and it still kind of is. I'm going to working on that at some point in the future.

Stuff that I'm working on:

With P'n'Pr Anthony Peruzzo:

Alt Cover

Sweating Bullets Page 1

Sweating Bullets Pages 2 and 3

Sweating Bullets Page 4

Sweating Bullets Page 5

Okay, I'm on MySpace. I also have a blog type thingamabob and Flickr! You can see some of my work by going to myComicSpace It's all very exciting.
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 From:  Justin Jordan (JUSTINJORDAN)
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1236.20 In reply to 1236.19 
With PnP'r John Bivens

Rumors of War:

Rumors of War Page One

Rumors Of War Page Two

Rumors Of War Page Three

Anthony and John have more on their own workblog threads, and I can't say enough good things about them.

Okay, I'm on MySpace. I also have a blog type thingamabob and Flickr! You can see some of my work by going to myComicSpace It's all very exciting.
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